A Question(s) from Mr Steve.
We must be an intimidating lot, Steve PM'd me these questions. I did seek his permission to publish them on the board. Be nice guys! Oh yes! Jed he does not wish to invest in your lap dancing club OK? just joined your forum and very useful it is too! I apologise in advance if we're supposed to post this on the forum for all to see but we're just finding our way around. We are planning to relocate to Kef at some point in our lifetimes. Last year we looked seriously at the whole thing: work, accommodation, etc., and decided that we did not want to do it on the basis of seasonally working like slaves for little money. Who knows, we may get so desperate to leave the UK that we do it in this way, but we are not ready yet! You give good warnings of the pitfalls of buying property and we've sussed some of these over the years we've been coming over. However, what are the sensible ways to buy property, avoiding sharks and random blokes in tavernas. Why do so many Brits buy land and have a house built instead of buying an existing place? Do you get more for your money doing it that way? Workwise, we are not under any illusions of the island being a paradise. I am a plumber and my wife is a lawyer. Both professions are not especially useful on the island due to language, the Greek law being different and construction trades full of cheap Albanian labour. Maybe we could run a business but there are many possible pitfalls there too. Maybe our best plan is to buy an investment property , maybe rent it out, use it for holidays. We like Scala (expensive) and surrounding areas (maybe not so expensive) maybe up in the hills or Porus is OK. Any advice on the above would be welcome. We look forward to hearing from you. My bit of advice for the following Maybe our best plan is to buy an investment property If you can pay cash without too much pain and can spend enough to market it plus do not need to earn from it for at least 3 years, then fine go ahead. If not or if you need to earn from season one............forget it. Money is better in the bank. Scala/Poros is getting a bit over developed and the holiday companies are slowly pulling out and moving north. This should tell you something! TDC :wink:

Hi Mr Steve, you may wish to visit my website at www.kefmortgages.com and arrange a free consultation when visiting the Island next. A mortgage is not a pre-requisite. Best wishes HughC

the holiday companies are slowly pulling out and moving north...lucky for us that Ag Ef isn't on their map Paul - well done for trying to keep it that way!

Just for info. It is possible to buy land, build and cover all expenses in the first year - we've just done it and have only been marketing for two and a half months & will still hopefully fill our remaining availability before the season is out which will just be a bonus. I originally thought we were going to have to subsidise entirely ourselves for the first couple of years - I think we've been very lucky. It has however taken money (and a hell of a lot of time) to market it properly. Now onto the next one...maybe! Not on Kefalonia again though - everyone is too greedy and it's got far too expensive in the last five years or so to make it so viable. Land prices & building costs are now extortionate compared to just about anywhere else in Greece :pirate:

TDC...i think you may have misunderstood.... I wasn't saying that we now own everything outright. I'm saying we have covered our interest, covered the management costs, covered our bills & taxes. We managed to tie the builders down to prices that were being charged around 4 odd years ago and the land was good value for where we are compared to the ridiculous prices now being asked (and even more amazingly still being achieved). We could certainly not, without selling up back in the UK and paying off everything there and in Greece afford to live just on the villa - this was always a 10 year plan to put all profits back into the property so it will be debt free come retirement (without us having to subsidise from our UK incomes). If we did sell up in the UK, we would effectively have no debts and a sizeable amount to start a business in Greece. However, to not have to subsidise in the first year is still good in my eyes with only a few months of marketing. With regards to purchasing elsewhere in Greece - I have a few Euros stashed in Greece and am debating whether to send them back to the UK and make on the Euro rate (these were purchased a year or so ago) or invest somewhere else. I hope this makes it clearer for you. Mr Steve, I know what TDC is trying to say..."stop any more bloody English invading my island" :wink: but you do need to heed what he says. You need to be very careful giving everything up in the UK, however, TDC did it as have many others, so it must be possible. :-D

not given up on YUK!
Carl, we still keep a house in Blighty! To which we return end of November every year! But I now see your logic now. This is great, but reliant on cash flow. There is no room for error, disaster, poor seasons, plus you are on a hamster wheel pushing the proverbial up hill 24x7. Sounds like hard work to me!!! I have a reciprocal agreement with banks and mortgages, I don't do 'em and they don't rent holiday properties in Agia Efimia! TDC 8)

Good on ye TDC, not needing Bank assistance. One of the few. The Greek Banks have not been affected by the sub prime shinalligons and still offer attractive mortgages. Land/ Property is very negotiable over here. Gullible people get taken for a ride by Estate Agents. Building costs are also negotiable, there is competition in Kefalonia, and room to play the market. There is still plenty of scope for making a good investment in Kefalonia. As for quality of life, no con-*test*-('"). :-D

we still keep a house in Blighty! To which we return end of November every year Paul, that must be a trip you and Judi REALLY look forward to! I know the season has ended, but November in the UK? :roll:

Trip back
Funnily enough we do look forward to it. 1. It is 4-5 days when we are out of contact and there are no phones or computers. 2. I love our overnight stay in Switzerland, the overnight frost is a novel experience! 3. I love the shops in the UK and all the other paraphernalia that goes with Christmas. 4. I enjoy the Great Escape all over again...and again....and again :roll: 5. Judi loves the pre Christmas sales....the January sales, the February sales :roll: :roll: :? 6. Judi loves being a lady wot lunches....coffees......shops...shops......shops :roll: :lol: But it is true by January 3rd I am ready to return! But business keeps us in the UK until late February TDC 8)

We have had business on Kef for the last 8 years. and in the UK for many more, but not related to each other. If you like Kef enough to want to live there I think TDC has given good advice to you. Do not put all your eggs in one basket, keep feet in both countries. Or your paradise could soon be lost and that would be a shame.when ready have the cash ready to snap up a bargain and rent somewhere to begin with. I don't think it is a good time to buy on Kef, either land or property it is still at the top of the market. Wait and see, in theory property and land prices should drop and if the season is bad this year there may be a few people very keen to sell to repay loans. However having just returned from Kef, there doesn't seem to be much depression in the cafeneons, maybe it is too early in the season. The mainland seems to be struggling but Kef is in a bit of a bubble at present I think. They all seem much happier than in the UK, but then that is not unusual.

To buy bor not to buy?
I had an interesting conversation with a client of ours yesterday in Marabu. She works for the CAB and is one of their professional advisers. She had a few interesting points to say. 1. The credit crunch is a huge iceberg, and we have only seen the very tip of it so far. The after effects of sub-prime and over extended credit takes time to filter through, so 12 to 18 months is when the real difficulties will start to bite. It is too early yet to experience the full knock on effect. 2. Banks and Government agencies will have you believe that all those in trouble with their credit cards are between £10,000 to £25.000 worth of debt. This is not so she says, she sees people every day with on average with £50,000 to £100,000 of credit card debt. Plus this is not as rare as you may think! 3. The problem (she says) was started when councils were selling off their houses at stupid discounted rates. This allowed people who could never raise the deposit to buy a house buy their own council house. This then enabled them to get credit cards as now they were home owners. Plus they could take extra mortgages to release equity up to the value of their homes, so long as the sun shone all things were hunky dory! This then started the "I want it and I want it now generation!" Bank/card Debt no longer had any stigma attached to it. It was/is the norm. Til the proverbial hits the fan! I really think the market here is too high and there are better places to place your money at the moment. I am not attempting to dissuade anyone, nor do I wish to put anyone off coming here. Just wait and see, give it time and there could be a bad season here next year or the year after that, don't put yourself on the treadmill with debt. It is very risky, you have to really watch what you are doing and work like hell just to keep still. You may find that relaxing holiday home you wanted could become a source of real stress when two of those well known money misers and asset strippers........Ahem! DTG or Me :shock: :-D come along and offer you 50p in the £..........on a good day! Have to be a good day as I am leaning towards the UK investment wise at the moment! Research your market! Plan your moves. THINK THINK THINK! Don't increase our portfolio any further...please! I would rather have you as coffee shop pals! :-D TDC :wink:

Qualification required
I feel I should qualify my last post, I would have corrected it but Hugh has already read it so rather than change the original post I will explain something better. The "right to buy" your council home did not start the rot on it's own, but it was a major contributing factor. Buying to let on a mortgage means your bottom line will always be eroded by large interest payments. A few people when letting out holiday property fail to take into account the cost of maintenance, laundry, cleaning, replacing damaged/broken items, water and electricity costs which in summer are high as your lovely guests often turn on the bloody aircon just before they go out for the night :angry: then leave it on all night :angry: :angry: then don't get out of bed until 11am and still have it on whilst they breakfast :angry: :angry: :angry: :twisted: I have a duplicate remote now :twisted: :wink: My only consolation is when they catch a cold and get a frozen shoulder from the cold draught :twisted: TDC

TDC You wrote a load of sensible stuff in those last 2 posts. It is a pity that governments and the financial sector haven't been endowed with similar commonsense, experience and insight. I'm glad I am out of it - nobody listened when I was in it. Phil

TDC, Dear Chap (Cat), as per always you make valid points. Bottom line, on average, in twenty years you will own your own Greek Villa and other people have paid for it. Prudence en route would never go amiss. 8)